On the substantive side, in terms of the issues, we met with a number of groups over the summer, a number of stakeholders.
But was it as strong on the substantive side?
On the more substantive side, Geithner's concerns seem to begin and end with finance.
"This thing is terrible enough on the substantive side, attacking drinking water protections for 1 in 3 Americans," Devine said.
"They'll think, 'Now GoDaddy is really bringing it, with substantive tools.' " On the other side of the coin, "whatever we've lost in 'sexy' we hope we've gained in smart and substantial," he added.
"In the opinion of the contact group, this indicates a lack of willingness on the side of separatists to engage in substantive talks on a mutually agreed ceasefire," it said in a statement.
It was back to being a battle on substantive issues and on those McCain suddenly seemed to be not only on the wrong side of the argument - tied to the Republican ideology of unfettered free markets - but even on the wrong side of history.
Yet Bremer seemed unwilling to give the U.N. a substantive role; around this time, Vieira de Mello told George Packer, a reporter for this magazine, that the "neocon side of Bremer's personality" was emerging.
Never mind that Ronald Reagan and House Speaker Tip O'Neill found ways to work together, or that some of the major successes of the Clinton administration were the result of substantive give-and-take on both sides of the aisle.
The good news is that it's a substantive debate, and it's worth having, and both sides of the battle worked hard to elevate Ryan to this point.
