neither first nor second

USAGE SUMMARY

'neither first nor second' is a perfectly acceptable phrase in written English.
It can be used to refer to two distinct alternatives, where neither option is preferable. For example: "We weren't sure which color to choose, so we picked neither first nor second."

✓ Grammatically correct

Science

News & Media

Human-verified examples from authoritative sources

Exact Expressions

1 human-written examples

For instance, if our algebra of propositions contains Heads on first toss of coin, Heads on second toss of coin, and Six on first roll of die, we might plausibly say that the first two are relevantly similar, but neither first nor second is relevantly similar to the third.

SEP

Human-verified similar examples from authoritative sources

Similar Expressions

59 human-written examples

During this second diagnostic window neither third nor fourth generation HIV assays were reactive.

Journal of Clinical Virology

One thinks of the grandeur of Ellison's Invisible Man, first person, and the mad intelligence of Nabokov's Lolita, and also of the brainy, frenetic insouciance of Stephenson's Snow Crash, third person, and it becomes clear that neither first nor third has any monopoly on greatness, on piercing our bifrost hearts.

Huffington Post

The state and the commission initially told The Times that they had no jurisdiction in the case since neither the first nor second treatment was by itself an overdose, even though in combination they were.

The New York Times

Saturday's $1 million Midsummer Derby, as the Travers is known, will have a full field of 11, and Super Saver was neither the first nor second favorite in the morning odds.

The New York Times - Sports

It was neither the first nor second time he had shared sensitive material with the site, but was one of a handful of moments in time during early 2010 where he supplied the whistleblower organization with files.

Vice

Patients who did not meet this criterion were further partitioned based on whether they had improved by at least 2 points on the excitement item (4-Excitement) at Week 2. Patients who met neither the first nor second level criteria were identified as likely non-responders; patients who did not meet the first branch criterion, but met the second branch criterion were identified as not predictable.

BMC Psychiatry

If North Carolina was selected for a higher-tier bowl game, the door would be opened for Notre Dame to play in the 1998 Gator Bowl a circumstance provided for if neither the first nor second-place ACC team was available to play.

Wikipedia

Neither the second factor nor the fourth factor are true in this study because quickly saturated third codon positions and the control region were excluded from the present analysis, and because each mitochondrial gene used here was tested and shown to perform well for dating vertebrate divergences [ 95].

BMC Evolutionary Biology

The story assumes that individuals are able to reason through these issues of who is entitled to appropriate and use and exchange goods without the tutelage of government, and that at neither the first stage nor the second stage is any social or political decision-making about property required.

SEP

Neither the second order nor the first order job satisfaction factors were associated with working as a nurse at 3 years and therefore there is little support for primary hypothesis 2.

Human Resources for Health

Expert writing Tips

Best practice

When using "neither first nor second", ensure the context clearly establishes what 'first' and 'second' refer to, avoiding ambiguity.

Common error

A common mistake is failing to maintain parallel structure after "neither". Ensure that the elements following "first" and "second" are grammatically equivalent.

Linguistic Context

The phrase "neither first nor second" functions as a coordinating conjunction phrase, negating two consecutive ordinal items. It serves to indicate that both the initial and subsequent options or elements are excluded or do not apply. As Ludwig AI confirms, this construction is grammatically sound and widely recognized.

Expression frequency: Common

Frequent in

News & Media

33%

Science

33%

Wiki

7%

Less common in

Encyclopedias

2%

Formal & Business

1%

Social Media

0%

Ludwig's WRAP-UP

In summary, the phrase "neither first nor second" serves as a conjunction phrase to exclude two sequential items, suitable for various contexts, as Ludwig AI also confirms that this construction is grammatically sound. As shown by Ludwig, it appears across varied reputable sources like The New York Times and PlosOne. While the phrase maintains a neutral register suitable for both scientific and journalistic content, it is important to maintain parallel structure after "neither". Common errors include grammatical inconsistencies which must be avoided. For clearer and more impactful communication, consider alternatives like "not the first nor the second" or "excluding both the first and second" based on the context.

More alternative expressions

Phrases that express similar concepts, ordered by semantic similarity:

not the first nor the second

Reverses the order of negation, placing 'not' before 'the first' for a slightly different emphasis.

not first, not second

Simplifies the structure by stating two separate negations.

neither the initial nor the subsequent

Uses more formal vocabulary to denote sequence.

not the primary, nor the secondary

Employs synonyms for 'first' and 'second' for a more sophisticated tone.

not one, not two

Reduces the statement to its numerical essence.

excluding both the first and second

Focuses on the act of exclusion rather than a negative conjunction.

omitting the first and second

Similar to 'excluding', this highlights the omission of items.

without the first or second

Expresses absence of both items more directly.

not in the first or second position

Specifies the position or order being negated.

beyond the first and second

Indicates that something extends past the initial two items.

FAQs

How can I use "neither first nor second" in a sentence?

You can use "neither first nor second" to indicate that two options are not applicable or chosen. For example, "Neither the "first option" nor the "second option" seemed suitable for the task".

What are some alternatives to saying "neither first nor second"?

Alternatives include "not the first nor the second", "excluding both the first and second", or "without the first or second", depending on the specific nuance you want to convey.

Is it grammatically correct to say "neither first nor second"?

Yes, "neither first nor second" is grammatically correct and commonly used to negate two sequential items or options. Its correctness is also supported by Ludwig AI.

What's the difference between "neither first nor second" and "not first and not second"?

"Neither first nor second" implies a single coordinated negation, whereas "not first and not second" can suggest two separate, independent negations. The former is often more concise and elegant.